Dr Jantz & Whole Person Care for Mental Health

International expert, Dr Jantz, is a best selling author of 40 books, innovator in the treatment of mental health, a go-to media authority on mental and behavioral health afflictions appearing on CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, CNN and more.  Also the founder of The Center A Place Of Hope, in Edmonds, Washington, voted a top-ten facility for depression treatment in the United states,  Dr. Jantz pioneered Whole Person Care in the1980's and is a world-renowned expert on depression, anxiety, eating disorders, technology addiction and abuse.

With our current environment, everyone of us are better served to gain a general understanding of mental health and some of the approaches to whole person care.

Anxiety, depression, and lack of sleep are three epidemics resulting from the pandemic.  Months of chronic stress have our bodies tired and we simply need self care, support, and to learn the basics for positive mental health.  There are things we can do, resources for help, and a journey to recovery.

This episode covers the reason for so much stress this year, signs for the need to reach out, tips to help with self care, positive steps, and decisions to make on the journey to recovery.

Dr. Jantz's newest Book: Healing Depression for Life
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Note: Episode was recorded under the former podcast name of "3Ps in a Pod"

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Lenora Turner: This podcast is about purpose, pathways, and perspectives. It's called 3Ps In A Pod. I'm Lenora your host. And I'm talking about a topic or really have a guest, an expert, a true national expert. Talking about an incredibly important topic that I think every one of us should have a decent understanding of. And this is loaded with great information. 

[00:00:24] So enjoy listening and pass this one on about mental health. This is sponsored by lenoradiane.com.

[00:00:34] Dr. Jantz It is so wonderful to have you on this podcast. 

[00:00:48] Gregg Jantz: It's good to be with you. 

[00:00:50] Lenora Turner: Thank you so much. 

[00:00:51] I'm going to share a little bit about your background, and I really want you to tell the audience a little bit about how you got to do what you're doing, but for those listening, Dr. Greg Jantz is truly a mental health expert who over 30 years ago, pioneered whole person holistic care.

[00:01:08] He's a leader in the holistic treatment and he doesn't do a one-size-fits-all approach. He actually has, get this, 37 bestselling books. He's got a national radio program, is regularly featured or has articles in Psychology Today, Thrive Global. He works with depression, eating disorders, anxiety, relationship issues, drug and alcohol addictions, and more.

[00:01:30] I mean, I could spend this whole time just talking about everything you've done. And then A Place of Hope is a top 10 facility in the U S for the treatment of depression. So, thank you for taking the time to be on this podcast. Cause you have been interviewed many times on many platforms. 

[00:01:46] Gregg Jantz: Oh Lenora, absolutely. And what you're doing is important. 

[00:01:50] Lenora Turner: Thank you. And you know what, I can tell you a little bit where I remember first meeting you is I had read your book called this was a long time ago and read Healing The Scars of Emotional Abuse. 

[00:02:01] Gregg Jantz: That was written a while ago.

[00:02:03] Lenora Turner: It was. It was a while ago. And it was one of those it's like, okay, doesn't just give you stuff to do. It was heart touching, like, wow. 

[00:02:13] Gregg Jantz: Yeah. 

[00:02:13] Lenora Turner: And then when I met you, I thought, wait, you're the, you wrote that? And I was a little star struck because I, you know, just knowing the content and I hadn't really met authors before now. You've written so many more and you're one of the happiest people I've ever met.

[00:02:26] You're just a light. So how did you get into doing what you do and taking a holistic approach? 

[00:02:34] Gregg Jantz: You know, years ago when I was in school and my major was psychology and I go, Oh, you know what? These people in psychology, they're kind of strange. And I just felt like there was a missing piece to the puzzle.

[00:02:51] So I met my wife in school and Lafon and I kind of had a vision for what ended up being called The Center, A Place of Hope. And actually we're gonna start next. Yeah, yeah. This next year to be 38 years. 

[00:03:06] Lenora Turner: Wow. 

[00:03:06] And so, and what our philosophy is, is we need to address the whole person in order to have long-term success.

[00:03:14] And that means, that's why we even have dieticians on staff. We have natural health care. We've got our medical team, as well as, you know, everybody coming here gets a fitness assessment. We want to cover the whole person. And faith and as far as healing and trauma for past. So, it's that whole person piece.

[00:03:36] And we really do believe that people can have healing and recovery. And this interesting season that we've been in, there's a pandemic, but there's also three different epidemics. One is that of anxiety, which just means people in huge numbers have been experiencing really some chronic anxiety.

[00:04:01] As well as we've got the depression, that's there. That's number two. Number three, uh, really is a sleep, or I should say lack of sleep epidemic that we're having in our country. So there's a lot going on. We really believe that you've got to address the whole person and that's really our foundation. We do it as a team.

[00:04:23] So every client coming here we handpick, based upon their needs, a team for them. And, we're like a hospital, people come here four weeks, six weeks, whatever they may need. And we're still serving folks who are coming in from all over the country.  So we believe that, I mean, this is a time where caring for our mental health is really, really important.

[00:04:52] Lenora Turner: My goodness. Yes. And thank you for saying that so well, but there are these three major things going on and I've talked to some people where there is it the anxiety keeping them awake or is it like you're saying you're checking into what's the physical imbalances versus the actual situations going on, the circumstances, habits?

[00:05:12] Gregg Jantz: Right. 

[00:05:13] Lenora Turner: Is it all that? 

[00:05:14] Gregg Jantz: It's all that. You think about, right now, uh, folks have been nine months plus under some really significant chronic stress. And if we take and there's been confinement, so to speak, people have been confined, isolated. And really what we're having right now is people don't know what their future holds.

[00:05:36] And so a lot of folks are in this place of, of some despair. That anxiety is led to despair and people are not necessarily thinking clearly, because they're so overwhelmed. And we know, I mean, it's hard to say, but suicide rates certainly increased. We know among our 12- to 17-year-old youth that suicide is way up in that age range. 

[00:06:07] Interestingly, right now, the next growing area of suicide is men about 50 and above. And so, these numbers are alarming, but we're living in a time right now where there's a great deal of despair. 

[00:06:22] Lenora Turner: And I, yeah, it troubles me to hear that. I know that's why I so wanted to have a conversation because I think. Do you think people think that it's just, they need to work harder or it's their fault, or somehow, they can just work it out on their own and don't recognize they need to get help?

[00:06:39] What's the reason people don't reach out for help? 

[00:06:42] Gregg Jantz: Well, what is going on is we're seeing addiction rates increase so much alcohol, depending on where you live. Alcohol sales are 500 to 600% higher. Which is an amazing thing to think about that. It used to be, and I did a little experiment here at the grocery store locally, I did reach, put my head around the plexiglass and go, Hey, What's the biggest seller right now? And she kind of chuckled. She said, well, you know, it's not toilet paper anymore. She says, it's alcohol. We can barely keep it on the shelves. This is just one grocery store, and this is what people are doing.

[00:07:22] So, addiction rates are up. People are coping, maybe secretly it was alcohol or maybe it's food. And so what we find is there's a real shame about getting help. And so, now that so many are working from home, they're actually starting to consume alcohol even earlier in the day.

[00:07:45] Lenora Turner: Cause they're there, it's already there right around them.

[00:07:47] Gregg Jantz: Yeah. So there's a lot of this going on and people are feeling that, I think one of the big things is no sense of control. 

[00:07:57] Lenora Turner: Hmm. Yeah. You don't feel like you can control you can't stop what's hindering us. You can't. Yeah. You feel like you don't have control over your circumstances.

[00:08:03] Gregg Jantz: Businesses, church... Everything's got some kind of a limit on it and there's always the fear there's going to be more.

[00:08:10] And that's why I say confinement because we're confining people. And after a while, people reach a point of saturation. I can't do this anymore.  

[00:08:22] Lenora Turner: So, what are someof the best things they can do if they find if someone listening or they know someone who is feeling like, okay, yeah, I've been doing some of those things and your sleep, isn't good.

[00:08:33] And you're realizing, yeah, it's all this floating on a sea of question marks and all the confinement, all those things. How would you, how do you encourage people to go ahead and reach out? Now not everybody may or may not be able to go to a facility. What are some things they can do to begin to have some hope for solutions?

[00:08:52] Gregg Jantz: I know this may sound simple, but what's happened is because of what's going on, our basic self-care is really suffering. And here's what I mean by that. People are not, you know, exercising or moving, like they maybe were before. Here's what's interesting, the higher the anxiety levels, the less water people drink.

[00:09:13] Lenora Turner: Oh interesting.

[00:09:14] Gregg Jantz: Yeah, so they drink other things. So, are you drinking your water? Where's mine? Here it is. We gotta be drinking our water. It's really...

[00:09:26] Lenora Turner: You're saying hydration is really healthy for you? 

[00:09:29] Gregg Jantz: Yeah. Absolutely. You know, by the way, water does affect mood. So, have a glass. The whole area of just being maybe overloaded with media, news. 

[00:09:43] Lenora Turner: I've turned so much of it off. I turned it way, way, way, way down. Because there is so much I can't control. 

[00:09:49] Gregg Jantz: Exactly 

[00:09:49] Lenora Turner: I can't keep feeding the same things or versions of it in my head. 

[00:09:53] Gregg Jantz: Yes. People are feeling a sense of betrayal. It's like, I don't know if I can trust this news or this new source or, and so there's a sense of betrayal, which means I don't know what to believe, and that's not a good place for folks.

[00:10:11] The more they're isolated, the more we tend to do self-destructive behaviors. So, we're pulling back where we need to be reaching out. 

[00:10:22] Lenora Turner: Even if it's a phone call to a friend, you know, getting out for a walk.

[00:10:27] Gregg Jantz:  Oh yeah. In fact, we ask our staff, get out there, walk 20 minutes a couple times a day and keep moving, get outside.

[00:10:38] This is so important. It's easy not to do it right now. And you know, Oh, the gym is closed. Oh, but you're still going to go for a walk. 

[00:10:48] Lenora Turner: Yeah. Well, what do you do, what do you recommend when you're living on like a sea of question marks? How do you mentally approach that? When you're like, we don't know when the answer's going to be here. Now we have some great hope with some vaccines and, and various things, but still so much is going on.

[00:11:04] What do you do with all those question marks? How do you make that okay? Some personalities probably are better at doing that than others too. 

[00:11:10] Gregg Jantz: You know, Lenora, sometimes we are living with the question marks and it's like, I don't know what the answer is or how long we'll have to wait for the answer.

[00:11:20] Here's what I know, do everything you can to keep yourself healthy, whole person cover all the bases. One of the things that might be helpful is, maybe it's creating a journal or maybe it's, I'm going to revisit my, maybe it's my life goals right now. I'm going to write out some things.

[00:11:40] Don't wait for a new year's resolution or say, yeah, 2021 is going to be so much better. You know, make some goals now and start to take some baby steps towards those. Maybe yours is activity or movement or by noon everyday I'm going to make sure I drink all my water but have some baby step goals and start to create some movement.

[00:12:03] The other thing is have three, maybe; no more than five, but, three key people in your life that you can reach out to, that you can tell the truth. People are hypersensitive right now. Oh, there's a lot of just criticalness and people making judgements and, people are hypersensitive right now.

[00:12:25] Well find, have three. They're, usually non-family members, but three, maybe three to five people that are good for you. They're gonna speak truth into your life. We're gonna do this together. We all take a turn. We all have a down day. We all have days that oh, I don't know, we can feel overwhelmed. And, overwhelmed, usually we pull back and I want us to reach out. 

[00:12:52] Lenora Turner: Yeah, that's a big deal. I think I've seen, having a routine is kind of helpful. You're right. It is so easy to, especially when it's gone on this long to let go of more and more of what has kept you strong in a routine, because you start feeling like it's such a blur of one week blending into the next, or what your load may or may not be for work.

[00:13:16] Gregg Jantz: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:13:17] Lenora Turner: Routine is a pretty big deal, huh? 

[00:13:19] Gregg Jantz: Routine's a very important deal.  And build in some creative routines. One of the things that actually my wife did for our whole family is she put on all of our devices, she put a notification that comes on every day and I'm reading it right now.

[00:13:39] It says "One person a day." "One person a day." What do you mean? And, she says, it's a reminder, there's one person a day that, you're going to see or be in touch with that needs a good word. Maybe they need a meal, but just be alert, so we're not, so self-absorbed, with just our own fears that you're going to see other people in need. And remember be alert to that and reach out. 

[00:14:05] Lenora Turner: That's good. You know, a few times I've done that where I've, a couple of times with my own brother said, Hey, I was calling him kind of like, Hey, encourage me. And I ended up, you know, we we'd done it for each other when you flip. And all of a sudden, you're like I called, but I'm encouraging him or encouraging a friend and you get off the phone all encouraged, but you were the one who actually gave out, we've flipped turns of who's receiving what, but giving out, filled my tank a lot. 

[00:14:32] Gregg Jantz: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.  

[00:14:35] Lenora Turner: Now, you talked about the hope for recovery. Cause I know sometimes, and I've talked to some people when they thought about getting maybe some supplements or prescription for some help, but they think, well, if I do that, it's forever and they've heard all these stories and they don't want to be forever on a, on a pill or something, but can you talk about maybe a balance there?

[00:14:55] How do you get that kind of help, but does it, it's not going to be forever, or can you have full recovery? 

[00:15:01] Gregg Jantz: Sure. 

[00:15:01] Lenora Turner: Talk a little bit about that. 

[00:15:03] Gregg Jantz: Yeah, I think right now, there's folks that they're feeling their despair or depression or I'm feeling like I can't even function. I think of a guy that here recently was sharing the experience of being on the freeway and just breaking out in a cold sweat and his heart's racing and he's blurry vision. And he worked himself off the freeway to the side of the road and he thought he was having a heart attack. Well, really what was happening was he was having a panic attack. And so we're seeing more of these episodes of fear that push you over to the edge.

[00:15:41] So one of the things to remember is, we don't have to, that's a warning sign. That's just saying, Hey, your, your body has had enough and we need to look at doing some things. So, this is the time that there is help available. And this is the time where we need to reach out, find out what the options are.

[00:16:00] You know right now, for folks that are in a pretty critical red zone, you know, I think, you know, we always look at medication as a good bridge, a good bridge. We've got to get across the stormy river, but we need to do right now, really those things so we're not alone. 

[00:16:20] Lenora Turner: Right. 

[00:16:20] Gregg Jantz: So we have the support we need, and there are some pretty good options available, even from a virtual sense. 

[00:16:28] Lenora Turner: Virtual sense meaning what do you mean by virtual sense? 

[00:16:30] Gregg Jantz: Oh, um, I was just sharing with somebody earlier today that there's even some great support groups that for those that aren't meeting in person they're even meeting online. I'm going to go okay. Plug in right now. Yeah, it's amazing.  

[00:16:47] We have an alumni program that is virtual and people from all over the country plugin once a week.

[00:16:54] And here's, what's interesting. They, no matter where you live, they're all experiencing the same thing. Sometimes, you know, to one degree or another. But we're all experiencing some very similar things and we need each other. 

[00:17:10] Lenora Turner: Yep. So is there a way other people can get involved in that if they want to and the ones you have or just find, how do they find resources like that?

[00:17:18] Gregg Jantz: You know, one of the things that we have found is, sometimes there is a waiting list on some of these resources and there is a higher need than ever before for good mental health resources. Certainly, we can share some things that we know that are available, and that could be a simple phone call to The Center, A Place of Hope.

[00:17:41] Today, maybe if you feel like man, I'm on that edge or I'm feeling this despair, this is a day then to reach out and just say, I'm going to find out what the options are.  

[00:17:52] Lenora Turner: So, even taking those steps. Yeah. I found that just taking some steps. And I know when I felt like, what the heck was I going to do to just get forward?

[00:18:01] My mantra became, and it wasn't even really about mental health at that time, it was like, I didn't know for sure what my direction was for whatever, for my career, my future. And just felt like Lenora, just take a step every day. If that's Google something, read about things.

[00:18:18] Gregg Jantz: I agree. That's right. 

[00:18:20] Lenora Turner: And it just brings hope because you're taking a step rather than stuck looking internal and like you're spinning, but not really getting anywhere.

[00:18:28] Gregg Jantz: If you don't know what to do. And look, I'm looking out my window, go outside and say, I'm going to go for a walk for 20 minutes. It's amazing the things that will come to you. Get some movement going. Sometimes I'm just struggling and struggling, and you just stay in one spot. Just get some movement going.

[00:18:45] Lenora Turner: Oh, that's very powerful. And I know you, you can, what do you use your phone or a piece of paper to just jot down thoughts or I wasn't a big journaler, cause I always thought I had to write a book or something and I would just like, I don't have that kind of time or focus, but you just jotting thoughts and things to help, you know, as I was processing something or learning something.

[00:19:03] So why is journaling so helpful? Or it can be? 

[00:19:05] Gregg Jantz: One of the things is when we put it on paper, we begin and we can look at it and go, okay. It helps us to deal with some reality, oftentimes, if we're being truthful. The other piece is writing it down begins the process of lessening some of the power. It's draining a little bit out of our brain.

[00:19:23] I'm going to write this down and this is where I'm going to leave it right now. I can come back to it. But it's a way of, of helping us then maybe even prioritize some things. I'm thinking about folks who are struggling right now, and there's so much fear in their life and they feel out of control or they feel controlled.

[00:19:47] And, they're really kind of holding themselves up and they're not feeling particularly productive, not feeling creative, feeling way too alone. Those are all cues or warning signs that, okay I need to change something and change it now. 

[00:20:05] Lenora Turner: Yeah. Because it just it's like, it's something that's getting just thicker and it feels heavier and heavier.

[00:20:10] So yeah. So thank you. The signs to reach out that really real sense of alone or that anxiety not being able to sleep. And like you said, we can do this, some of the simple things to help, but to reach out is so smart. I think it takes more strength to reach out than to think you can always power through on your own. Being willing to be vulnerable and say, Hey, I'm here. Welcome to human. We need help. We need each other. 

[00:20:34] Gregg Jantz: Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:20:36] And I know that at times you feel like, well, you know, cause I mentioned addiction rates are up. At times you can feel like, okay, well I've been secretly drinking or I'm doing, doing some things to cope and it's not working well, but then you feel maybe some shame or embarrassment. Go well, you know, I can't tell anybody what I'm really doing, and that kind of keeps us stuck. 

[00:21:00] Lenora Turner: So what do you recommend, how do they get their selves out yourself, out of you? It doesn't work to stay stuck. So. 

[00:21:07] Gregg Jantz: Yeah, I need to make a decision. Today's the day I'm going to be truthful. And look at how am I dealing with the following emotions? Anger or hurt? Am I just feeling like there's so much anger inside or hurt, you know, and that hurt maybe gets transformed into depression?

[00:21:25] How am I dealing with fears? Is fear moved up to the top of my list? Am I feeling so much fear? Could be fear of health, fear of a virus, fear of, you know, fear of the future. But fear just has a ripple effect. It can affect our whole, our whole being. All of our emotions. So how am I doing with fear? 

[00:21:45] And the final one, is do checkpoint; how am I doing with guilt or shame? Am I feeling guilty about some things? Am I feeling ashamed? These are the, if you will, maybe the three toxic emotions that can paralyze you to keep you from doing anything. Anger and hurt and fear and feeling guilty; those can keep you trapped. 

[00:22:09] Lenora Turner: Yeah, we got to realize they're very, very, very common.

[00:22:11] We all wrestle with these things and sometimes someone can look like they're all fine, but they're struggling just like you are. And we just have to go, it's okay. We got reach out.

[00:22:20] Gregg Jantz: That's right. 

[00:22:21] Lenora Turner: I don't know anyone who hasn't had some time where they've really needed to just say I need help. 

[00:22:27] Gregg Jantz: Yeah, that's right.

[00:22:29] Lenora Turner: I think one of the best things we can do, at least in this season is get rid of that stigma that you're somehow never supposed to need help. That you can always figure it out yourself and, and you're just exhausted and you, we need each other. 

[00:22:41] Gregg Jantz: Let's say we all have our turn. 

[00:22:44] Lenora Turner: Yeah. 

[00:22:45] Gregg Jantz: We'll have our turn with something. Yeah. 

[00:22:47] Lenora Turner: Anything you want to add to options for right now? Or thoughts someone should take? You've shared so much already. 

[00:22:57] Gregg Jantz: Well, also be careful about what's going in. How are we keeping good information coming in. There's a lot of information that we can be totally saturated.  

[00:23:09] Lenora Turner: Is there a mind kind of like, I've been thinking of like a Google search engine or that what they call the reticular activation system or whatever. And you're building, the more you look at something, the more you will see of it. And if it's on the negative focus, sometimes it almost feels addicting to hear that next crisis story. Cause it's what else is going on? 

[00:23:26] But that's a very unhealthy draining quote addiction just for the negative news, because we've heard so much, we're almost like, well, I got to hear the next thing, but it's sucking energy out of you. How do you, it can almost be like an addiction to feel that sorrow or that fear?

[00:23:44] Gregg Jantz: Yes. And one of the things, when we get into this real negative place and I understand how we can get there and how we got, um, but we kind of end up looking for more and more things that just keep reinforcing that. And it's hard. 

[00:23:58] Lenora Turner: Now why do you think we do that? Why? Cause I have done that.

[00:24:01] Gregg Jantz: Yeah. It's a vicious cycle because once you begin to feel like there's no hope it's easy to land there. And remember, hope comes when we start to create a plan. Sometimes we need somebody to help us with that. I think in terms, if you feel like hope's gone, it's time to partner up and create at least a beginning plan.

[00:24:26] There's some things we are out of control of , you know, there's some thing's happening that is beyond us. And so that's, that's not where we're going to put our point of focus. Our point of focus is on those things with ourselves and our loved ones that we can have an influence with. And that's where we need to keep that point of focus right now. 

[00:24:51] Lenora Turner: That's good. So find some people to reach out to. Focus on what you can do, the simple things. I know, cause years ago I was in that place where I got hopeless for a while. It's not a fun place. And to get to where you have hope again for your future.

[00:25:03] And it is, for me, it was a number of things. It was eating better; it was reaching out. It was, um, change, you know, realizing what some of my habits. I probably should have done something; it probably would have been a quicker process had I gotten some temporary medical support, but you just start taking those steps and one of the best things I could have done was reach out sooner.

[00:25:25] Gregg Jantz: I'm glad you mentioned that because, oftentimes we'll hear people say things like, I just wish I would have done something sooner. I suffered way too long. 

[00:25:38] Lenora Turner: Somebody told me when I had talked to him. He was a friend and kind of a counselor too. And he had said, Hey, Lenora you need to lower your pain tolerance.

[00:25:46] Gregg Jantz: There you go. 

[00:25:47] Lenora Turner: I was like, What? You're thinking of an actual wound, but he's like, no, you have let this get overwhelming to the point where you seriously cannot bear. And he's like lower the pain tolerance; speak up sooner. And that was a huge nugget for me. And I've kept it forever to go, I'm not going to let it go to that level of pain.

[00:26:05] I am reaching out and I have to think welcome to human. You just, when I was really kind of accepted Lenora, you're human, you need people. That's what humans do. That helped too.  Just lower the pain tolerance reach out and to know that absolutely you can get to a great place again. Absolutely you can. 

[00:26:24] I mean, where it's better than even was before. It may not look like it at the time, but boy, can it become great again. 

[00:26:31] Gregg Jantz: I agree. Yeah. 

[00:26:33] Lenora Turner: So, I know, if they want to connect more with your resources, I'll make sure that the link to your website and stuff is on the podcast notes, but it's called The Center, A Place of Hope.

[00:26:44] And then the many, many books you have covers so many of these different topics, which I like to get information to help me like, like getting tools in my toolkit. 

[00:26:51] Gregg Jantz: Absolutely. 

[00:26:53] Lenora Turner: Yeah. Any other final words for their next step?  

[00:26:57] Gregg Jantz: I think then the next step is to make a decision in some way I'm going to reach out and gather more information It could be a resource. It might be, the latest book I did was Healing Depression For Life. And you know, if it's depression, get a resource. Begin today to say, you know what I'm going to, I'm going to take the initial steps to change the direction. 

[00:27:24] Lenora Turner: Yeah, absolutely. And then drink that water, take the right stuff. Then do the simple stuff to move around.

[00:27:31] Gregg Jantz: Yeah. 

[00:27:31] Lenora Turner: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's such important work that you do. Thank you so much. You and your wife are amazing. And your, your staff, whenever I've talked to them, just even reaching out to you. Gosh, I've been always blown away by the customer service. Seriously. You've impressed, you know, and again, we only talked a few times over the last years and I've always been okay, these guys stand out. So people, whoever reaches out to you, you have a wonderful team. 

[00:27:56] Gregg Jantz: That's our desire. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.  

[00:27:59] Lenora Turner: Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. And we will talk again, I know. 

[00:28:04] Gregg Jantz: You got it. Thank you, Lenora. 

[00:28:06] Lenora Turner: I hope you subscribe to this podcast. So you can hear when every episode comes out and as mentioned above the link to The Center, A Place of Hope is in the podcast notes.

[00:28:18] And whether this information is for you or for someone you know, I think it's important that all of us learn how we can better take care of ourselves and our mental health. Thanks for listening.